Category: Dating and Relationships
So I met a guy a couple of weeks ago and hooked up with him. He sent me a friend request on Facebook, and I've only just gotten around to accepting it. I stopped in my tracks, however, upon discovering from his profile that he has a girlfriend. When we met, he specifically told me he didn't. From what I could gather after doing just a bit of research, they've been together for over a year, and she seems to be very much in love with him. I feel horrible about the situation. Random hookups sound like such fun... until stuff like this happens. And since this experience has taught me that you can't trust someone to be honest about their relationship status, I'll certainly never engage in a random hookup again. Anyway, I think the fair and honest thing to do is to tell his girlfriend what happened, especially since I was not the only girl he hit on that night. But I'm running into some problems. His girlfriend doesn't accept Facebook messages from people who are not on her friend list, and I can't find any other contact info for her. She has a LinkedIn profile, but I'd rather not sign up for LinkedIn just to contact her unless I have to. She and I have one friend in common on Facebook, but I don't know this girl well enough to pass the message through her. In a moment of desperation, I considered trying to reach her through her sister, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. I'd like to remain anonymous throughout this mess anyway, which rules out confronting the guy. He probably wouldn't tell me the truth in any case. So how do I inform her as to what's going on? And with all due respect to the people that hold this view, I'm not interested in hearing that I should leave well enough alone and that it's not my place to tell her. I've already made up my mind as to what I'm going to do and it's not going to change. I'm just at a loss as to how I'm going to make it happen. I'd be grateful for any suggestions that you guys can provide.
Thanks,
Becky
I would suggest you not use her sister.
But, can you befriend her on Facebook? When you submit a friend request you can usually put text in there, or used to be able to anyway, which will tell her you are an acquaintance of her boyfriend.
That is one way.
Or see if she is on Twitter or some other network.
I admire your courage, and hope that she does also. After all, you acted in good faith. Speaking as a man, he was acting as a little boy. A majority of us do not do this betrayal of trust. Latest I read less than 30 percent of males actually break faith with their wife or girlfriend.
I really hope she will see your contact as courageous and noble, which it is. Clearly, you acted in good faith. And we all of us have to take the word of somebody at face value for different situations, and we have for various reasons experienced buyer's remorse.
You weren't the one that was unfaithful: he is. You committed no treachery, he did.
Hey--I don't know you well at all, but I love you for your courage and honesty. So many people will say, well it's not my fault, I had no clue he wasnt' available--I couldn't help our chemistry... blah, blah, blah. I don't personally do random hookups mostly because of the possibility of this sort of drama, actually. Though I'm not a casual sex type of girl anyway... I'm not a prude by any means, but I just don't find sex with a stranger very exciting... Just my two cents though.
As for contacting the girlfriend, you can write her a message via facebook even if you're not friends with her. You can go to her profile, and usually you can find an option that allows you to send a message.
Just between us, though, whether you tell ehr or not, she'll find out about her boyfriend being a player. And chances are, she already has. Maybe it doesnt' bother her that he hooks up with other girls--you never know. She might just be ignoring it for one reason or another. You never know what kind of relationship two people may have. But if it eases your conscience and makes you feel better, make one attempt to let her know and leave it at that. What she does with his cheating ass is entirely up to her.
Unfortunately there's no longer a way of inserting a message when you friend people.
Good on you for your honesty too. :)
That was definitely a monumental mistake on Facebook's part given their policy on friend requests. I've gotten banned from seding requests several times because people said they didn't know me, all because I couldn't message them to remind them that we went to school together. As for players I've run into a few women like that and certainly more than a few men. I'd be in your soes. I'd want to inform the girlfriend if I could.
My suggestion would be to friend request her on Facebook; if you have a mutual friend, there's a chance she may accept you, and then you could send her a private message.
That's true too.
I have had that issue with facebook where I got band from sending friend request for a week because some people I knew back in elementry school or some how said they didn't remember me.
But anyways. I found that you can follow someone without friending them and maybe after a bit, you would be able to friend them later. I am not sure if she would have that blocked or not.
I honestly wasn’t going to post to this topic, but my thoughts on this won’t leave me alone, so I’m giving in.
Not to change your mind however, just to say from a guy’s point of view.
For the record, having sex for sex sake is fine by me done responsibly, so I have no beef there either.
I like to know more about my prospects, so never meet and greet, so to speak, but after I know her a while, I’m in.
You won the coin toss, because he obviously didn’t care out of the girls he was flirting with who he hooked up with, he just wanted to hook up.
You did too, because in order to win you had to turn it on.
Must have been some good sex or you’d not be so mad about him having a girlfriend. Him having a girlfriend means, you probably won’t be getting any more without complications you don’t want to deal with, so you want to track his angel of a girlfriend down, because you just know for sure she’s been wronged and tell her he’s a cheater.
That angel could have been out doing exactly the same thing you were, but that doesn’t come to your mind, because as I see it you want the pig to pay for his pleasure with you. He wasn’t a pig when you were rutting but now he is!
It isn’t good enough to tell him you don’t appreciate him lying, if indeed he did, no, you got to get some payback too.
Vengeful!
Just sayin.
I forgot this part.
If you do happen to find her, and rock the boat, it won’t affect you at all.
You will go on to your next hookup and leave the pot boiling. It won’t be no skin off your nose, now will it?
Smile.
Vengeful!
Oo, wayne, you're so wrong on this one, it's not even funny--hate to say it. I don't think she's taking that viewpoint at all, and I know exactly where she's coming from. Not vengeful, just feeling guilty and feeling like she got sucked into something she didn't want to get sucked into. This is exactly like what I was talking about on my board. remember? You dont' want to be a part of someone else's drama.
This doesnt' have anything to do with good or bad sex. It doesnt' even have to do with jealousy. It has to do with the fact that she probably wouldnt' want her boyfriend, if she had one, hooking up with some random girl and not divulging freely the situation to either girl. She's been lied to. No matter whether the relationship this guy has with his girlfriend is open or exclusive, he didnt' mention a girlfriend and there clearly is one. You said so yourself: if you're in a an open relationship, you have nothing to hide. You say, here's my girlfriend. We're both hooking up with other people tonight, because we're in an open relationship. You dont' say, I'm single and available. You don't lie by omission either because, like I said, you have nothing to hide. This guy clearly did have something to hide but he played his cards pretty carelessly. So whether the girl was out hooking up or not that same night is of no consequence. She wants to get it off her conscience, and she wants to catch a liar in his act. She feels that she contributed to the potential hurt of someone else--and her wanting to set it straight is not vengeful, its conscious.
If she wanted to be vengeful, she'd keep trying to hook up with the guy regardless of knowing he has a girlfriend. She'd do it so clearly that the girlfriend would have to look the other way not to notice. She'd call him, text him constantly, find out where he lives, show up at his place in a suggestive outfit, That's being vengeful and jealous.
Leaving a liar to his devices and not setting straight with the people he lied to is what a person who is self-concerned and without a conscience would do.
Like I said, I think you totally went off the mark on this one. lol.
Whether she should or shouldnt' tell the girlfriend is her choice as you said, but you're totally wrong on her motives.
I know because while I didn't hook up with someone randomly like in the op's case, I almost did. I was very close indeed. In college a few years ago, I began dating this guy. Nice guy, said he was available, he was interested, I was interested. A few weeks later, we're in my dorm suite living room, and who should storm into the room but his fiancé. She was pissed and hurt, and I was confused, humiliated and I felt like shit for contributing to her pain. So yes. I know exactly where this op is coming from, just judging by the way she wrote it.
Because not knowing the truth leaves you powerless to make choices of your own. True choices that is. If you don't set out to hurt anyone consciously but you end up doing so because you were misinformed, if you're half a decent person with an ounce of compassion in your soul, you'll feel like shit, not for yourself as much as for the person who got the short end of the stick. Just because you are misinformed in these matters doesnt' mean you didnt' contribute to someone's humiliation, discomfort and pain.
I dont' know about you, but I never mind calling out a liar and a cheater for his or her misdeeds. Not out of jealousy or self-pitty, but because they deserve what's coming to them.
By the way wayne, as someone who's been cheated on before, it's incredibly humiliating when you're the last to know about your partner's infidelities--when everyone else, including the hookups know about your cheating partner but they dont' want to get into it because it's not their drama to get into. If someone's cheating on you and you wouldnt' be ok with it if you knew, what's the use of keeping up a relationship that's built on lies? It may be no skin off her nose, but at least she can clear her conscience, and that girl can take what she wants out of it. If it's no big thing, If indeed she was also hooking up with someone that night, nothing will come of it. No big deal, just a misunderstanding and everything will be all cleared up with just a little bit of communication.
If, however, this guy is a lying scumbag, his girlfriend has the right to know so she can make up her mind about him instead of letting him play her for however long he wants to, with everyone knowing the deal but her.
By the way, if a guy lies by evasion, yeah, he is a pig. Nothing to do with how good or bad the sex was. If two consenting partners are able to make the choice to hook up, if neither has anything to hide, why should there be any shame or guilt? The whole picture changes though, once you find out there's more to the person you decided to hook up with--more in the way of lies.
"She feels that she contributed to the potential hurt of someone else--"
If she doesn't track her down, tell her I slept with your boyfriend, she won't.
Yeah, she wants to light fire under his ass. Sho nuff.
She can get mad with him all she like, that's fine, but to track somebody down who she doesn't even know might have been doing exactly what she was doing, and will continue is just making it hard for the guy.
What if she finds the girl, breaks up the relationship and all. Now, she's going to feel good and clean right?
Yeah!
The guy made it hard on himself wayne. lol No one did it to him. not at all. . Oh wow. You know wayne, when normally you're wise and sensible, if not rational at least, this time you're everything but. I would almost find it amusing if I couldn't agree with you less.
I just said: what's the point of a relationship if it's built on lies?
If the guy didnt' have anything to hide, he wouldn't have made anything harder on himself at all. All he had to do was: a, keep it in his pants if he was in an exclusive situation, or b, leave his exclusive situation and be in an open relationship, and be honest about it. You know I'm right. lol. You just feel sorry for the guy because you think he's being thrown under the bus. But if he didnt' get himself in the situation in the first place, he wouldn't have the issue in the first place.
If she never tracks his gf down, the gf, who may or may not be clueless about his behavior, will continue to be oblivious about at least this hookup. I was that gf once, and I sure as hell wish someone told me about my ex's behavior--even if it was the girl he slept with--just so I could make up my own mind about the matter. Once I found out, you could bet I broke it off because cheating is a real deal breaker for me. But I had the right to do that. And I had the right to be informed, no matter how hard a pill it could be to swallow at times... And so does this guy's girlfriend.
Oh. by the way, if anyone's wondering, if the roles were reversed and it was a girl messing around on her guy, I'd say absolutely the same thing, so dont' go getting any idea about how I'm biased because I'm determined to keep a man down or whatever. lol.
Wayne, see some sense here. Because you definitely aren't doing so in this instance. Look at leo's post. There's a genuinely level-headed, rational man for ya. lol.
To the OP, you may want to find out about hookup dynamics. Meaning, how does this stuff
typically get communicated? I was told recently that part of the fun is the lack of messy
communication. I realize this is foreign to the resource-exclusive types. Spontaneity can
be fun.
My guess is, there's a way you can ask and be safe. Then, like so many other spontaneous
interactions we all have, you take their word in good faith.
Wayne, thank you for being the only voice of sense there apparently is, here. it's nice to see that a guy isn't willing to take up for a woman who got herself into such a situation, and since it didn't go the way she hoped it would, she's trying to get back at the guy, now.
that's nothing but vengeful, and it's beyond me how anyone would, or even could, think otherwise.
to expand further on what you said, how can anyone be sure this guy's girlfriend doesn't already know what's going on? maybe she doesn't care, or wouldn't care, even if someone nosed into things, by bringing it to her attention.
as someone who has been cheated on, before, I'll be the first to admit that I didn't listen to what people said about the fact my girlfriend at the time was dating other people. it didn't matter how insistent they were about it, or how much they told me they had seen/heard, cause I flat out didn't wanna believe it.
what bothered me even more, though, was the fact people took it upon themselves to nose into someone else's business, to begin with.
so, in this case, no one can honestly say that this girl would wanna know, cause, the reality is that it would likely cause a lot of drama that could be avoided, if the OP just left things alone.
Yep; Way to sweep the action of liars and cheaters under the carpet. lol.
No one wants to know the truth. lol. except for the ones that do.
If a girl is so high and mighty after she has a hook up seems to me she's burning her candle at both ends?
No, I don't have a problem with hook ups, these are hook ups?
Maybe she should also call his momma and tell her your son is having sex with women he only knew for an hour?
Next call his religious leader, because she found out he goes to church, and explain he's cheating on his religion?
Next, she might call his daddy, to say your son is using girls, because he doesn't exactly tell them all the truth when he gets sex from the willing?
Hook ups are not designed for promises. These are hook ups and you take a risk when you do, so need to use responsible methods.
Why does the girl get special treatment because someone dislikes cheating because of how they'd feel?
Is this sister hood shit?
If she wants to make sure her sexual partners are above board complet, she should probably check them out before she has sex?
She has hearsay. Someone said his girlfriend really loves him, but she doesn't know if that is the truth.
Next, she's got to jump through hoops to figure out how to contact the woman, and I could tell her exactly how, but won't. It isn't like this girl is someone she knows? She's got to track her down.
Hire a private investigator if it has to be done.
No, that isn't how I'd do it, but I'd not.
"I'm a robber, and I go robbing with this dude who says he was not a police officer.. After we rob a few banks I learn he might be. Turn him in.
Smile. Huh un!
Chelsea has a point, if the couple has a don't ask don't tell relationship like Franklin and
Eleanor Rosavelt. She could be even a romantic asexual, hence the apparent caring
expressions on Facebook. If she is, letting him do hookups is a kindness.
I refer back to my earlier post, where I said there is probably a way for you to ask before
a hookup. I'm admittedly out of my element here, as are a lot of people, including some
of the most outspoken defenders of the default position. But one thing I've heard on this:
don't become Facebook friends. To me, that makes good sense. I'm semper fidelus in
sexual matters, I do like to be spontaneous in other areas, one is music. When I was
younger, and probably again this summer, I would play along with a random musician in
the park, if invited. Now I don't talk about my past musical exploits, that's decades ago
now, we would just enjoy the jam. Portland is kinda like that.
Anyway, when I take to doing this again in warm weather, we might not remember each
other's name. I won't add them to Facebook. I won't know if he goes home to be chewed
out for idling and not doing the honey-do list. And yes, women have their stories about
derelict men playing music on weekends when they could be doing something else.
There's a lot we don't know about this situation, and you'd be wise to talk to someone
who engages in this hookup behavior. Honestly, I don't really have an opinion on the
activity, seeing as I'm keeping my promises, which I made to a Person, not an idea.
You've heard the defense for the default supermajority position, something we've all heard
from the cradle. Nothing new here, except the whimsical notion that the default
supermajority position needs defense for some odd reason.
Talk to someone who does this hookup business, because you're likely to get answers that
will help you solve this and avoid it next time, or understand what is going on. You may
find it helpful to Google the Sexual Futurist.
I wonder if the guy had taken this poster out to a nice dinner, drinks, and given her some flowers, and explained he liked her, but wanted her to think about it for a few days before they had sex, would she be fired up to tell his girlfriend about that?
No!
Add sex to it, and bam! She needs to know.
I’m not pleased with this due to she tells the girl and put burdens in her life and the guys life, and she has nothing at all, but memories of a good night out.
Really now!
Okay I'm finished with my rant.
*spits.
Really now, people. lol. Go back to some board threads you all contributed to a few months ago. Remind yourselves how passionate you supposedly are about honesty. If you have a dont ask don't tell policy with a girlfriend, you say so to your hookup. You dont' say you're single. lol.
Wayne you're getting all bent out of shape on this one, and you still don't make any sense. The point is, it's not the girls fault that she slept with a guy who has a girlfriend. It's the guy who has a girlfriend who searched for a hookup. If he got himself in a shithole, he's got it coming to him if he gets chewed out by the girlfriend. If they have a don't ask, don't tell policy or if the girlfriend doesn't mind that the guy hooked up with someone, what' is she going to mind that she's been told. Nothing. the only drama that can come of it is if the guy WASN't supposed to be hooking up but did. Then he's got drama. And he's got it coming to him in that case. If it's burdensome to him to have this sort of drama, he'll seek a different type ofrelationship next time, or he'll keep it in his pants. that's simple. You cant' have it both ways often enough.
Maybe there's a way to do hookups properly, so to speak... I dont' know. But people are supposed to communicate, and people are supposed to be honest. They shouldn't sweep stuff under the rug just because they're afraid to rock the boat. News flash. the boat's already been rocked. lol. The end.
A book I've heard to be helpful, actually two: The Ethical Slut talks about these types of
relationships.
Sex At Dawn explores the scientific, anthropological understanding of the way we function
and the myths that surround monogamy. This could be quite educational for someone in
your position.
Also, remember you as a human evolved to be quite the lie detector, and few things stir
up our ire like deception.
I'll tell you why you never see me defend monogamy like Bernadetta does, or open / poly
like Chelsea does. The latter I have no experience with. The former I don't have to defend
or protect, in order for me to keep my promises. That's because the vast majority of keep
those. The rare, not the common, makes the news. And we're pretty wired against
betrayal. Think what comes to mind when you think traitor, cheater, or treason.
The most liberal estimates have domestic traitors (cheaters) at 30%, and most say a lot
less.
Wayne, you're right on, once again.
of course the OP/those who support her stance, wouldn't be wanting to tell, if the guy asked them to think about things, before having sex with them.
they'll say that's different, cause he's giving her a choice. *snicker*.
Bernadetta, you are almost right.
In the case of Franklin and Eleanore Rosavelt, Don't Ask Don't tell literally meant, 'don't tell.' That means 'I don't want to hear about it, I don't want to be dragged into it.' In Eleanore's case, she was a Lesbian and so had her own thing going.
So in that event he would not be in trouble for cheating, he would have been in trouble for her finding out to begin with. I know, you can't possibly imagine it. But while I don't understand it, I do realize there are a lot more agreements and agreement types out there than I had perhaps formerly understood. This has not been the reach for me to come to understanding on that t is for some, primarily because by now I have seen enough ways people do other things that I've only been broadened a little bit.
But let's bring this forward to a time period maybe you have known about. World War II is a long time ago and kind of boring in history class. But gay men and women I've known in the Armed Services wouldn't be asked if they were gay or Lesbian, but they also were not allowed to tell either. 'keep it in their pants' was the rhetoric of the church people.
That got overturned in 2012, I think it was. 2011 or 2012. But the agreement went both ways. We won't ask, and we don't want to know. Bears a lot of resemblance to the Rosavelt relationship except of course it was way worse on gays and Lesbians.
The fact is, you and I actually don't know. You by choice mixed with a dose of youthful idealism, and me by default. We haven't done as the hookup people describe. We haven't just gone out and had sex, and done it in an atmosphere where communication was at a minimum on purpose.
The closest I have come is talking to someone who did this, or a guy who went to a strip club and told me it was a bad time. He said it was a bad time because she was talking about her kids and so on. Ignorant supposedly too enlightened me, who has never and probably will never go to a strip club, had to ask: What's wrong with that? Girls do that all the time. He said, at those places, no they don't. The environment is set up specifically to minimize communication and maximize spontaneity.
That's specifically why I suggested she talk to someone who also does this who will be able to tell her how to avoid that situation.
But yes, Bernadetta, people have had don't ask don't tell relationships for a very long time. But a part of that is the don't tell part. If this is what he was up to, he should never have added her on Facebook.
I'm not saying that is what this is. I still stand behind what I first said, it is actually his responsibility. But the more you think about things, I mean think, not just feel and parrot ideaologies held by most of us, the more you see things can complicatre. I'm actually a bit sorry I wrote to begin with. We only have one side of the story, after all.
Again, I'm seriously out of my element on this stuff. And so are most people, especially those who defend the default supermajority positions. I'm as out of my element on this one, as I am with the situations gays and Lesbians face now, or unwed mothers faced a generation ago.
Anyway to the OP, all I can say truly is this: whatever the guy's situation is, and none of us knows for sure, you have all of our sympathies. Sympathies are far more important than ideologies, after all. An artificially intelligent machine could parrot an ideology. But sympathy is what makes us human.
And you are in a situation most of us have never been, or really understands.
If anybody should be disgusted, it should be myself, Bernadetta and anyone else who agrees with us. That is disgraceful that you are giving him excuses. And don't try to tell me you aren't because that isn't what you said word for word. You are making him out to be the victim of something that he had control of. The victim here is the girlfriend, who has the wool pulled over her eyes without even a question of what this guy did behind her back. And the original poster is also a victim of this idiot's lies as well. Don't give excuses to someone who couldn't separate his head from his penis. Don't give excuses to an immature boy who plays with women like pawns on a chess board. She's all ready made up her mind as to what she will do and that is admirable / brave of you to do that. The outcome should be... interesting to say the least. She could react in a few ways as something like this isn't just black or white.
I would agree that the OP should be concerned for her own safety in how she lets the other know. Again, there are probably people who have actually been through this before and know what they're talking about here.
Leo I understand that people have don't ask, don't tell relationships. But here's where that happens. It happens mostly in long-standing marriages where one or both parties aren't willing to have sex with each other. These parties stand a united front, but they don't gush about how they absolutely love each other in public--in this day and age, being facebook. Don't ask don't tell relationships don't typically happen between a boyfriend adn girlfriend who have only been with each other for something like a year or two, simply for this reason: they dont' stand to lose as much--mainly status, both political and societal, and also, because these days, if someone's sexually incompatible with their partner and they both agree on that, they go their separate ways.
Eleanor Roosevelt had many things standing against her freedom to be who she was back in teh day: 1. lesbians were not a thing of the day back then.
2. She had an important status as a lady of society, and an important name to uphold--so did her husband. it was in their best interest for political and social reasons to stay together.
Same with Jackie Kennedy and JFK. Same with most rich couples who have prenups.
Say what you will and mabe we don't knwo the entire story, but the way the first post was written, some things are pretty transparent to someone who is very observant.
First, if this guy really did have a don't ask don't tell policy as so many are adamant to stand up on, he would never have friended his hookup on facebook. This act alone suggests he is both: an idiot and a newbie. There's no agreement with his girl about dont' ask dont' tell. Because he didnt' think hard enough about how he could cover up the don't tell aspect of things.
Second, this is a young crowd from what I gather. Twenties, I'd say. If you're observant, you'd knwo that. Twenties or thirties. This guy isnt' married to this girl, he doesn't stand to lose much probably if he's only been dating her for a year. If they were so incompatible that they had to secretly seek out sexual partners, he'd leave--or she would--purely out of respect for each other.
I'm not vengeful twoard those who dont' practice monogamy, and I don't defend my stance because I feel the need to do so in order to uphold my promises. I just dislike duplicity in the form of lying and cheating, and I can't stand when people make excuses for it. I'd say the same if it were on a different topic that didnt' involve interpersonal relationship. I'd say the same about a crook who was cheating the system or a prick who discriminated against the poor. Nothing is black and white, but those who make excuses for players are either players themselves or could see how being one is permissable or right. And that's why I stand so vigorously with my stance.
I'd be just as defensive if someone try to defend bernie madolf on here.
And wayne, if a guy courted me, baught me dinner and flowers, etc. and told me that he wanted to wait for sex--if I found out he had a girlfriend, I'd certainly tell her. I'd tell her that her man was trying to get emotionally or intimately involved with someone, namely me, and I wouldnt' feel bad about that for a second. Because its' not just about sex. And something else: I'd give him back the money for the dinner and the flowers. I don't take gifts from players, no matter how nice they are. I dont' get into taht mess. lol.
Well fair points all. I see what you're saying, the don't ask don't tell wouldn't apply unless the girlfriend is a romantic asexual and wants to be with him but permit him to have sex on the side.
But then again, and here I don't understand hookups, wouldn't there be an agreed-upon way to communicate this ahead of time? Some word or what have you, that is understood and doesn't require a lengthy messy description. I don't know, and chances are will never know from personal experience. certainly never so long as the Chick is alive and chooses to stay with me.
The conduct twoard the hookup would be totally different leo. The guy wouldnt' conduct himself as a single man, but as someone who had the ability to hook up, free or not. If you look in the first post, you see she says "he was adamant he didn't" have a girlfriend. So maybe we dont' knwo his side of the story or the understanding he had with his girlfriend. But here's what's logical.
When a guy is adamant he doesnt' have a girlfriend he is:
either really single,
really looking to score regardless of whether he's single or not.
He's not:
In an open relationship,
and not:
In an understanding relationship, so to speak.
Or he'd have more to say on the topic, even to a hookup. Because he wouldn't want to get into any trouble within his understanding relationship, so to speak.
Hookups may be designed for minimal communication, but if you're going to cover your basis, at least do it well. lol.
I'm the first person to be compassionate and sympathetic twoard people, and I am always willing to give the benefit of a doubt. But this person is quite clearly a player of the typical sort, the kind who sneaks around to have the exclusive girl and the occasional spontaneous thing as well. I may be wrong, yes, i submit that. but you know what? if it looks like a dog, barks like a dog, and wags its tale like a dog does: it's pretty safe to asume its a dog.
I may have a long-term partner now, kid and all, but I've had a few alternative relationships as I've outlined before, and though I ultimately learned that they're not for me, I know a little something about them--or at least I've learned how to be very perseptive about people and their actions... and their words. lol.
Wayne, for instance, is usually very wise when posting to these boards. His posts are usually very thought-out and heartfelt, and they're constructive. They're usually written in such a way that suggests he's rational .
His demeanor is entirely different in this thread, as his his wording and the way that he poses his thoughts. He was clearly compelled to be bent out of shape by this board. lol. It suggests that he's being emotional rather than rational, out of character for him in these boards, and therefore, it leads me to conclude that this subject, for some reason, is very close to his heart. lol. And he feels the need to defend and make excuses for someone who so clearly is a screwup, regardless of how irrational his defense may be. I'll say no more.
I put a lot of thoughts into my posts, and I present clear points of view which are consistent. So I can't totally be parroting some long-ago instilled idiology. If I were, I wouldn't have much constructive to say on the mater. I was conditioned to believe a certain way, sure. I was also raised as a catholic. I'm not a catholic by choice, just as I could have chosen to not follow whatever the majority idiology may be. I gave it forethought though, just as chelsea gave her lifestyle forethought--because I'm willing to bet she was raised to believe in the same idiology the majority was conditioned to. It no longer qualifies as parroting idiology if you have your reasons for coming to such conclusions, whatever they may be, beyond "I was never taught any different." I submit that I dont' know everything by far, but I also dont' post to topics I dont' know at least a little something about--I observe and I learn. As I did from many of your fine folks' posts.
I can see that and apologize if I did get out of hand.
I'll admit as I have before, I never came to this conclusion but just went along with what everyone does. Everyone except either players or, what people said in the late 80s / early 90s, inconsiderate of women.
I suppose now we will see as a society what it is like when people select monogamy out of the available choices. I take what you say at face value. And will also admit that I'm often quite unobservant about people. The last to know on a lot of things, to be honest. That's something which has always been true of me.
You on the other hand are quite observant, so. That speaks for itself.
Miss B you are correct.
My writing style was purposely written exactly as you perceived it.
I posted I’d thought about the topic for several days, and had to say.
No, it is not close to my heart, it just makes me feel it isn’t the correct method to be going to the girlfriend after you have slept with her man and enjoyed it, gotten mad, so you want payback.
No, I’m not sticking up for the guy, thought I made that plain.
What I’m saying is his honestly, or lack of is between them, not her and his girlfriend.
When she crosses that line, she is needing out punishment, not telling the girl for her “own well” because she doesn’t know if telling the girl will be good or not.
Suppose telling the girl makes her harm herself, or something? That is on the one hand, extreme side.
Maybe it does nothing but make the girl smile and say so what!
The thing is, she doesn’t know the woman, and doesn’t know how it will affect her.
All I hear about is how he’s got to keep his penis in his pants. She didn’t keep her panties up until she knew him well enough to make sure he was telling the truth, but she’s virtuous now? Yeah!
Now, again, I have no problem with her dropping her panties to get some because she liked what she saw, but don’t pull them up and say, “oh, I’ve got to fix his situation.”
Sur, a man is in an open relationship, or he is not, but I don’t want the woman that enjoyed a night of sex with me on the spur deciding what is right for me or wrong for me, because she feels people should know.
Suppose I had some interesting things about my body, like a crooked penis, or a tattoo on my butt, should she tell all about this?
Should she maybe go to my priest after she learns I’m Catholic, and tell him I’m sinning because I told her, “well, I’m not religious.” Would that be the same miss B?
I really want an answer to that question.
The problem here is the woman thing.
I wonder how many things she didn’t tell the guy?
Here is why.
If she really wanted this girl to know about her boyfriend cheating, and she’s not ashamed of hooking up with him, nor has anything to hide why doesn’t she post it on her wall?
She claims she did research and learned about this guy. Why hasn’t she posted about the great night they had on his wall?
She learned about the girlfriend from other Facebook users, so why doesn’t she talk about how he tricked her on their and her walls?
See how simple it be to get the message back to this girl?
No, she doesn’t do that, but ask for some complicated way to get in touch with the girl, when all she has to do is talk about the night with the guy on Facebook!
Now, tell me something?
Oh, Wayne, she should tell her in private? Hmm.
Yeah!
Yes wayne. she should tell her in private. Because she's not seeking drama. She's seeking to be truthful. and noble. She is hoping that whatever teh girl does with her confession, she'll at least ahve the truth to her disposal. Adn thats' perfectly courageous and honorable. Because this isn't about some bodily disfunction he may have, it's not a religious issue. it's a matter of the heart. of intimacy. of lies. and the reason she has nothing to be accountable for is because she's not messing around on someone herself. She is single. Thus she can engage in a hookup. She's sorry for having trusted someone who was untruthful. If you're a businessman and you take a customer at good faith and then you get screwed over, is it totally your fault? Should you not warn your business partner about what happened, as well as other people about the customer being a scammer?
she says so herself: she's sorry for trusting someone at face balue, and she's humiliated for the girl and she disliked being lied to. That's genuine, not vengeful or drama-seeking.
I said in a previous post that if two people mutually agree to hook up and they have nothing to lose, it's their business. They're not accountable for anyone else's feelings. They dont' have agreements and promises they have to uphold.
Maybe some religious people would feel that if this guy was a man of God's word, so to speak, his priest should know. But it would have to be a thing between two extremely religious people. I dont' know about religion. I dont' care about religion. I dont' even care about a crooked penis or tattoos. I care about sex and intimacy though, and I know a bit about it. and I also care about lying or lack their of.
Those suggestions you posted, that she should put it on facebook for all to see--now that's what would make her a drama-seeking hoe, so to speak. I'd have no problem shooting someone like that down. Taht kind of person is being prideful about her hookup, and she doesnt' care that she's humiliating the girlfriend in front of her whole circle of friends. Privacy is tactful. But there's a huge difference between telling the entire world about your hookup and telling the person who's in an exclusive relationship with the hookup. Big, major difference.
The point is, she may not know if the girlfriend would or would not care. But she feels obligated to do the noble thing and tell her anyway. Because it's the truth.
You know something wayne? We all do things without knowing their consequences if we believe it's right to do them.
The professor that catches a student cheating on his senior midterms can decide not to tell the students parents: maybe the student will harm himself if his mommy and daddy find out what a crook he is after all. But the parents are paying for the school. Not the kid (We're talking about high school students here by the way), so it is the parents business, and they should be notified.
Why the hell not?
And yes, actually, you were very much defending the guy... I can pick out a few phrases you chose to use to prove it to you.
And again, she's not telling "people" about the hookup, she's telling a specific person. She's not saying "people should know" she's telling someone who's directly effected that "she should know."
suppose these few examples:
Suppose the OP had an STD that she may have transmitted to the guy she hooked up with. Should she then not be compelled to tell the girlfriend that she may also be infected with the STD despite them having used condoms?
Sure, she'd have been wrong to have sex with the guy if she had an STD, but just because she was wrong to do that, should she hang her head in shame and have the girl find out in some other, unfortunate way that she, too, may have an STD?
Suppose you went to Best buy with a friend. You walk into the store with your friend, and you have no intention of doing anything wrong, but you see your friend break, or shoplift, a small piece of electronic equipment. Do you not tell the store manager that your friend ran with the merchandise? Suppose you warn your friend that he shouldnt' do that, but he still does anyway.
He's gone with the piece of electronic equipment without having been caught. do you leave because you had come with that friend and you should be loyal, or do you tell the manager? Very similar circumstance.
Leo, You have nothing to appologize for. You're a levelheaded dude and your posts are always thought out, if not a little outlandish at times. I enjoy
our debates and discussions on these boards, and if I had an issue with your posts, I'd say so. lol. I admire that you can submit that you may have jumped the gun at times. thats' very admirable.
to address what Bernadetta said about Wayne and I backpedaling on previous stances we've held, that couldn't be farther from the truth.
we simply don't see it as being dishonest, if the OP leaves the girlfriend out of this situation.
what happened was between the OP, and the guy. the guy's girlfriend wasn't involved in their decision to hook up, and won't be involved, now, unless the OP forces that upon her.
the reason I say she shouldn’t do so, is cause it wouldn’t serve any benefit to the girl, whatsoever. more than likely, if she’s told, she’ll be pissed at the OP, not her boyfriend.
also, Bernadetta, you're wrong, in thinking that the only people who use the "don't ask, don't tell" mind set, are those who used to be in powerful positions.
in polyamorous relationships, for example, some people adopt that particular mind set, cause it doesn't matter to them what their partner does with other people. all they require, is that every partner be honest about who they're with.
just as monogamous relationships differ in how people choose to approach them, so too, do polyamorous relationships.
You know wayne--there's just one hitch with your point of view: the honesty or lack there of may be between the guy and his girlfriend, but if everyone thought as you do, she doesnt' have a chance to decide if he's sufficiently honest with her or not.
Your way is called sweeping things under the carpet. it's the same as used to happen to women, kids and even men in abused families. Everyone knew, but they didnt' confront the abuser or rescue the abused because it wasn't their place. Because they didnt' know if they'd be harming the family further or not by doing so. Plenty of black and blues went unnoticed because people didnt' want to stick their nose in other people's business. Times of looking the other way in terms of abuse are over, and many kids and women have been spared because of this. So why should people look the other way in the matter of cheating, especially when they're directly involved. No, cheating is not physically abusive (unless you catch an STD, that is). But it is emotional abuse and humiliating--it's abuse of loyalty. So therefore, coming clean is noble. I can't see how you see it any other way. .
Chelsea, you just contradicted yourself. In a single sentence you said that polyamorous relationships rely on "don't ask don't tell", they just require all parties involved to be honest about who they're with. If they have to be honest about who they're with, they're telling. lol. And if it doesnt' matter to all parties involved about the other's partnerships, then they don't need to employ the don't ask dont' tell policy, because, like you said, it doesnt' matter. Don't ask don't tell implies there are secrets to be withheld from one or both parties, forthe sake of tactfulness. honesty constitutes openness.
Big difference.
Now, if what you're saying is correct, your version of honesty comes with a dose of compartmentalization. Your version of honesty only serves you well. Your honesty is convenient for you, never mind someone else. So regardless of what you did to contribute to someone else's dishonesty, since you're not really involved, you'll stay out of it. That sort of self-serve attitude hasn't done many people much good. I guess my version of honesty comes with compassion... Honesty for all parties involved, not just those involved in the moment.
You say the girlfriend doesnt' stand to gain anything from being told-but most people, regardless of your personal views--prefer to know the truth even if it hurts rather than being lied to in order to satisfy their favor.
Any lie will complicate a situation far more than the worst truth.
College students parents pay, why not them too?
Religion is serious to some people, so why not tell his priest, or better yet, she things religion is a crock, so tell his priest, in confession, mind you, that he’s a lying bastard?
I was waiting on the STD angle. That could be handled by allowing the clinic to send the girl a notice. That is important, because the girl could spread it to others, and might have given it to the guy.
In cases like these, you invite the guy you slept with to go with you to the clinic, and the clinic ask him who his sex partners were, and they contact them.
If my friend is stealing in a store, I walk out, and leave him or her to their own devices. I don’t tell anyone. My reason for that is I’m not his or her momma, nor an angel.
And no honesty between partners is not honestly between you and the girl he told he loved her. Honestly is between you and your sexual partner.
The problem with your view miss B is you have your opinion about cheating and feel everyone that does, no matter what, should be punished. That is exactly what I’m saying here. She is punishing, not doing “the right thing.”
You don’t care about religion, but you care about matters of the hart and intimacy. I knew that before you posted.
You can’t put your own belief system in to this and call it right.
Would you report your boyfriend to the store manager if he was stealing? Answer me that.
Should I set up a spy network and report you for everything you do that isn’t exactly right, because it is just?
If this wasn’t a matter of cheating, you’d not be so gun ho I’ll bet.
The business man has a right to protect his or her business, so need to tell the partner, but it is not his or her responsibility to tell other businesses as well.
When I say post this on her wall, and talk to others about being tricked, I’m not suggesting she post she hooked up, but that the guy lied to her and she wishes to tell the other girl.
See, she could do that and not spill the beans publicly.
She could talk about her hookup in a tactful manner so the message gets back to the other girl, and it will.
But, here again, I’m not here to change your mind nor hers. I just think its payback, and when you kiss and tell, you are going to get the other person punished. Flat out!
Kick. His. Ass!*
Yeah!
He cheated on his angel!
*hands miss B a 38.
"sum bitch! Where's his lying ass! I'm gonna have me some of dat. Then I'm gonna barry him, dig em up, and shoot him again!"*
Yep wayne. I'd bring my boyfriend to the manager myself. lol. I'd be pissed that he was setting such a poor example for his son. So yeah. I would.
I'm not saying I'm a saint wayne. I dont' care if the girl is an angel. She could be a harlet of the worst kind, so to speak. But if she's involved--which she is because her boyfriend is the one with eh hookup, she deserves to find out.
And the priest doesn't stand to lose anything personally if one of his parishioners is hooking up. Hell, the priest probably has a bunch of skeletons in his closet that he cant' possible be rid of. Who even knows if he cares about what he's doing sexually, let alone what his parishioners are doing between the sheets. A girlfriend is most likely going to care what her boyfriend is doing sexually though. College students too. why not. they're not paying, so if the parents are paying, why not let them know how nicely their money is going down the drain? lol
You have a good point on the STD angle though. Thats' a tactful way of doing it, though a bit impersonal. It does the job, I'll admit. And you may be right that she can go through other people to get the news to the girlfriend about her guy hooking up. But still, you're totally wrong on the motive, and there, I guess we'll have to disagree.
You said that I'm only defending this viewpoint because it hits on the topic of cheating... Didn't you see my previous post from today in which I said: and I quote: I'm not vengeful twoard those who dont' practice monogamy, and I don't defend my stance because I feel the need to do so in order to uphold my promises. I just dislike duplicity in the form of lying and cheating, and I can't stand when people make excuses for it. I'd say the same if it were on a different topic that didnt' involve interpersonal relationships. I'd say the same about a crook who was cheating the system or a prick who discriminated against the poor. I'd be just as defensive if someone try to defend bernie madolf on here.
No one's a saint, and if you wish to catch me on a spy cam to see if I'm doing something irreputible, that would be your prerogative. Of course, I never invited you to spy on me in the first place and I didnt' give you anything to be suspicious about, so if you wanted a privacy lawsuit on your hands, you'd have it. lol.
But that's so, very, different from this matter. It really is. Because privacy has already been breached.
Honesty is all good and well between sex partners. But if the sex partner's not available to be having sex with you in the first place and he's supposed to be honest with whoever it is that is his primary sex partner, all bets are off.
Trust me. If I were to think of a few ways just to punish the guy for cheating, I'd think of way worse than informing his girlfriend of the hookup. If I wanted to be vengeful, I'd go all out. I'm a creative person after all. But this doesnt' have to do with punishment again. It has to do with being truthful and with clearing ones conscience. if the guy gets caught like a dear in the headlights--well, its' his own fault.
If my boyfriend decides to steal while we're at the store together, its' his own fault if he's been dumb enough to do so and then he feels humiliated. lol. Good thing my boyfriend is a terrible liar. Good thing for him, I mean. lol.
And see, if you scram from the store if yoru friend is stealing, you're trying to cover yoru ass and trying to avoid being an accomplice. But what if yoru dear thieving friend betrays you even farther and tells the store manager, once he's caught, that you're the one who got him there, that you were even helping him steal. If you came clear with the manager first and you told him about your friend's thieving ways, you wouldnt' be implicated because you'd be in the clear. See how far communicating the truth can get you?
By the way wayne? One more thing to add after rereading your post. You can’t put your own belief system in to this and call it right.
Right back atcha, pal. lol
At least my opinion lines up with a rational argument, while yours is a matter of "let's just look the other way so as to ensure that no one is hurt. ever." lol.
Except lies hurt. Lies by omission hurt. Even if you find out about them ions later.
Walking out the door gets me further. I get home sooner or to the next shop.
"I just dislike duplicity in the form of lying and cheating, and I can't stand when people make excuses for it."
I got stuck right there. Lol
No, we'll not agree.
*Buts his sword down.
Hey. I was being truthful. that didn't implicate me at all. that statement of mine that you repeated.
But cheating and lying doesn't always have to do with matters of intimacy.
It can be in terms of: illegal immigration, social security fraud, stealing from your job to pay for a transgender surgery (yes, I know of someone who did). and so on. lol
Yes. we'll agree to disagree. No skin off my nose. :)
oh, and just for entertainment purposes, back to our store scenario, you say that walking out gets you further. what if that translates to the store manager as you running away?
You can get to the next shop or you can even get home, but if you do, you'll look way more suspicious than if you stayed put and revealed your innoscence. lol. You can get far, but the farther you go, the worse off you are when you're found. lol.
See how my method gets people with the same point of view into less trouble potentially, while you're self-concerned sort of honesty gets you, well, nowhere very good?
For not being your friend's mommy, or an angel for that matter, you'd end up in the slammer... while your friend might walk for turning you in.
Don't you know that you're not supposed to run if you might have dealings with the law because running gets you into hotter water?
I never run. I just tips out the door, smiles and waves.
Heck, I might even stop by the counter and buy something. Got my receipt, I'm out the door and my friend can deal with his or her ssticky fingers problem.
Sir, do you no this gal? Who, her? Nah! Just met her today.
Smile.
Only thing is, being seemingly smooth doesn't always get you where you want to be. lol.
I can see both sides of this.
On one hand, I can see many reasons you'd want to tell.
On the other, I think that people who go at this with the revenge point of view
are disgusting.
If they code to make it public, shout it from the walls, tell everyone they know
in both social circles that who ever cheated did. they're not in it to help the
partner, they're in it for revenge. and that's not justice, and it shouldn't be
condoned, applauded, or justified.
I think if someone chooses to tell. They need to wait until their emotions cool
down, and they're in a rational frame of mind. You do have the right to inform
the other partner, but that's where it should end.
I've never cheated. i've been cheated on though.
I've informed people when this has happened, and been informed of it as well,
by other people.
either way, its crushing but ultimately, better to know, than not.
At least you can deal with the things you know.
She's clearly not out to seek revenge though. You could tell from the first post. I agree that being vengeful is stupid and uncalled for, but this is clearly not the case.
Bernadetta, the fact that some people in polyamorous relationships choose to not tell their partners explicit details about their other relationships, is not seen as dishonesty.
the whole meaning of polyamory, is ethical and consensual relationships, between all involved adults.
this means, based on an agreement that's made, everyone will at least be aware that they have multiple partners.
the extent to which people would wanna know things, varries from person to person, from relationship to relationship, just as every monogamous relationship varies from couple to couple, in many ways.
for example, depending on the people/the agreement they've made, some may wanna know when their partner starts having sex with a new person, while others may be content in the knowledge that said person is happy and fulfilled by another.
people who are polyamorous are open and honest about who they're with, and if they aren't, it's called cheating, just like would be the case in a monogamous relationship.
I guess if that is true, the guy should've told her he had a girlfriend and they were in an
open don't ask don't tell basis. I did see something like that a few months ago on that
polyamory documentary.
Anyway, then the OP could make an informed decision.
Meanwhile, this summer when it's warm, and I happen to jam with a musician in the park,
I shall not add him to Facebook. Even though it's common in relationships for women to
resent musicians keeping their hubby from being there, doing his chores, and being the
kind of father she and her friends think he should be.
Would I deliberately caus this? No, of course not. But I am not going to grill him first to
see he has done everything and she approves. Not adding him to my Facebook would be a
good way to avoid any of this. I'm not being outlandish here either. I've seen all this
before, what I described. And the women in that situation are at least as worked up as
Bernadetta was here.
The OP took it on good faith, presumably meeting in whatever type of place and setting
these hookups happen. Now she knows, because of Facebook, and is burdened with
relationship babysitter duty.
Hence I will never put a dude I jam with in a park on my Facebook wall.
lol, I'd be happy if my guy found someone to jam with in a park for a whole day on a spur of the moment type thing. I could never see myself getting worked up about it. Too bad you live all the way in Portland; You could jam with him, leo. lol.
Lol and I am married to one of these who doesn't mind either, in fact she likes it.
The only thing used to worry me was if she was to be getting static from the others for being supportive of such things.
Yeah, i have been one of the fortunate ones in this regard.
And, move to Portland. The beer is better here. Lol
Who's talking about revenge here? I do understand your point James, but I
don't see any such thing him the OP from her first post. He wasn't honest with
her, so everything has consequences in my opinion. I do think this is fair.